F3B World Championship in future?! CANCELED!

Read carefully text proposed by FAI France delegate Bruno Delor. Hey, Isabelle, Sylvain, Patrik, Philippe, Roland, Laurent, Fabrice, Jeremy and the others F3B friends in France try to convince your delegate that this proposal is really really weird. The others also talk to your FAI delegate to strictly reject this funny idea to combine many RC silent flight disciplines to one global or monster World Championship or keep F3J WC at the expense of F3B WC (I don’t want to talk here about future and status of F3J in dead end, already more than 20 years…). Be careful, that’s not joke. Some delegates already agreed this proposal.

f3bx

6 March 2013

 

REDUCTION OF NUMBER OF AEROMODELLING CLASSES AND CHAMPIONSHIPS

 

Minutes of the 2010 CIAM Plenary Meeting (page 26): “It was agreed that the number of championships is now so great that major difficulties are experienced in finding enough organisers, venues, officials and FAI Jury members and there is a greater financial burden on NACs than ever before. Measures must be taken to reduce the number of Championships. Ideas put forward were a reduction in the classes overall; a reduction in championship classes; running combined championships and increasing the interval between Championships.

Bureau was unanimously mandated by Plenary to look at this and generate a proposal for the 2011 Plenary Meeting.

 

The 2012 CIAM Bureau Meeting have considered the problem (item 23 of April Bureau Meeting and item 18 of December Bureau Meeting). Kevin Dodd as 2nd Vice-President has been appointed to be the Co-ordinator of the reduction of Championships. An Open Forum will be organised at the next CIAM Plenary Meeting on the basis of a document to be produced by Kevin Dodd.

 

Actually (see Table in annex), there are for Aeromodelling (without considering the Space models Championships) 16 separate World Championships (some of them with combined classes)covering 23 classes for Seniors (14 of them with the possibility to have a junior as fourth member team) and 7 classes with a specific Junior Championship (5 Junior Championships).

 

I clearly support the idea of reduction the number of Championships and the number of classes. There are various arguments for that.

 

There is no other sport with so many World Championships. This is aggravated by the effective low number of aeromodellers doing high level competition. Besides, a so high number is not considered as credible by the Executive Board of the FAI. The number of World Championships is increasing with a number of competitors decreasing slowly in many countries for different reasons and especially because of the cost of the high level competition. It is also more and more difficult to find qualified organisers every year. A so important number of National teams is also difficult to support by the NACs.

 

See below my suggestions on the subject.

1- Eligibilty for World and Continental Championships

Rules regarding eligibility for World Championships are defined in Volume ABR paragraph A.16: “minimum period of two years from the time the rules were made official during which at least two international contests were held each with a minimum of five FAI members nations participating.

Moreover, according to the General Section of Sporting Code (paragraph 3.5.31), if there are less than 4 NACs registered, the Air Sport Commission (CIAM for Aeromodelling) decides whether the World Championship will take place and whether or not a title will be awarded.

It is necessary to reinforce the requirements concerning eligibility for World (and Continental) Championships both for a new Championship and existing ones:

  • Existence of an effective and active World Cup, which means a minimum number of International Contests (8 to be discussed) and a minimum number of placed competitors every year (40 to be discussed).

Remarks: the idea is to encourage the Subcommittees to develop World Cups and to be sure there is real competition activity for any World Championship and so not to stay in the situation where World Championship classes are without any real international activity during the year (for example, on the basis of the 2013 FAI Calendar, no Open International contest in F4C, only one in F4H or F5D and two in F3N). In order to attract competitors from other continents, we have to encourage two or three European countries closed geographically closed to organize Open Internationals concentrated on a week in July or August of the year for which there is no World Championship (odd or even year depending the class).

  • Minimum numbers of participating countries and placed competitors for the last two World Championships (15 countries and 35 competitors to be discussed).

Remark : an equivalent specification can be applied to European Championships with for example a minimum of 10 countries and 25 competitors t(o be discussed); regarding other regions, it should stay at four countries with no minimum regarding placed competitors.

So, it will be an useful support to have a data base (number of placed competitors and number of participating countries) for all Aeromodelling (and Space Models) Championships (in each class for combined Championships) for the last 10 years.

Combined World Championships (inside the limit of five classes for each championships as defined in volume ABR paragraph B.24) such as F3C/F3N for RC Helicopter or F4C/F4H for RC Scale have also to be encouraged each time such Championships could be imagined.

Remark : depending of the World Championships which will be maintained, it will be necessary to review the years (odd or even) of the remaining World Championships for example in order to avoid the same year for F3A and F3P World Championships (if F3M World Championship is not maintained).

See below some personal considerations regarding the existing Aeromodelling World Championships and possibilities to reduce their number:

  1. F1 (Free Flight): I support the idea to combine the Senior F1A-B-C and the Junior F1A-B-P in the same World Championship as done in F1D and F1E (or F3J and F3K in Radio Controlled). With such combined Senior and Juniors Championships, the Juniors will take more benefit from the Championship getting support and advice from high level experienced Senior competitors. It will also facilitate the job for the NACs.

  2. F2 (Control Line): the actual combined World Championships (4 classes) with a possible junior as fourth member team seems to be optimum. The main difficulty is to find experienced organizers and adapted facilities.

  3. F3 RC Aerobatics: in my opinion, there is no place for threeseparate World Championships. Regarding the following considerations, it could be suggested to maintain only F3A and F3P World Championships.

F3A: a F3A World Championship hasto be maintained considering the notoriety of that class and the high numbers of countries and competitors competing in this World Championships.

F3P: I consider that it is a very appropriate class for a World Championship considering the fact this class is very attractive for young competitors and for medias. That is also the only Indoor RC class flown which means which could be easily flown all around the world at any time of the year. The idea to run World Championship in February or March is very appropriate.

F3M: we must have the courage to reconsider the decision of the 2012 CIAM Plenary Meeting of eligibility of F3M for a World Championship regarding the important problems existing in that class (level of noise, transportation by air plane of the models). If this championship is maintained, it has to be considered as a combined World Championship with F3A (such as done in F3C /F3N); but this is difficult to consider actually regarding a reasonable duration of the Championships and/or without reconsidering the number of flights in F3A.

Remark : the rules have also to be completed if a World Championship is maintained (use of TBL, semi-final and/or final flights, team placing as for F3A, …).

  1. F3 Soaring: there is in my opinion no place for fourseparate World Championships. Regarding the following considerations, I suggest to maintain only the F3J and F3K Championships.

F3B and F3J: those two classes are close. We have to request the Subcommittee to choose between those two classes for a World Championship. I personally suggest to keep the F3J – rather than F3B -which is at the moment a combined Seniors and Juniors.

F3K: the World Championship in that class has to be encouraged because F3K is the most RC sportive class which means potentially attractive for the young modelists. This class has also a real potential for medias such as TV’s.

F3F: I don’t consider that the introduction of a World Championship in that class is a good think. The success of a World Championship will very much depend of the meteorological conditions. I consider that the World Cup is more adapted for that class.

  1. F3 Helicopter: both F3C and F3N classes are acceptable for a World Championship if it stays as now on a combined World Championships.

  2. F3 Pylon: at the moment the Pylon racing World Championship only concerns the class F3D. The class F5D (Electric Pylon Racing) is combined with the F5B World Championship. In my opinion, it will be more appropriate to combine F5D and F3D in the same Word Championships rather to combine with F5B (no common points except the fact the propulsion is electric for both classes).

  3. F4 Scale: we have to see if the introduction of a F4H World Championship class combined with F4C will have a sufficient positive impact regarding the number of participating countries.

  4. F5 Electric: see F3 Pylon.

2- Other aspects regarding World or Continental Championships

Periodicity: according to the General Section of Sporting Code (paragraph 3.5.62), “World and Continental Championships should be held approximately every two years in any discipline or class.” In my opinion, we have to stick on that two years cycle and not go to World Championships every four years in order to reduce the number of World Championships to organize every year. For many reasons, Most of the sports have a World Championship every two years and no sport has gone to a four cycle years for their World Championships.

Duration of the Championships: CIAM Bureau must take care number of days for each World Championship in order to minimize duration of each Championship. For example, it could be suggested to reconsider the “reserve” day existing in some World or European Championships.

Choice of the organisers of World and Continental Championships: it is absolutely necessary to implicate the concerned Subcommittee Chairman for each bid of World Championship in order to check that the bids respect the rules requirements regarding facilities, equipments, capabilities of the organiser, … This implication must be done before the CIAM Plenary Meeting which will award the Championship.

Guide of the organiser: it will be very useful to have for each World Championship guide defining the technical requirements to respect. In order to help the organiser, it will be also desirable to define the “tools” necessary for the World Championships (software for the calculation of results and placings, processing card, templates which are necessary for the processing of the models, ,…) with possibility of download them on the CIAM website. Thus has to be done by the concerned Subcommittee under control of the CIAM Bureau.

FAI Organiser Agreement Document: the CIAM Bureaumust take about the reviewing of that document done by the FAI in order to have a document adapted for the Aeromodelling (and Space Models) Word Championships and covering all aspects (technical requirements, amounts for entry fees, banquet, food package, FAI medals and diplomas, …).

3- Annual ranking of nations based on World Championships medals

Such an international ranking (such as done for the Olympic Games, or for the 2009 World Air Games) can be done in application of Volume ABR (paragraph B.2.7). It could be done annually but taking in account the medals awarded in World championships on two years (2011/2012, then 2012/2013 and so on) in order to cover all the World Championships.

For example, it could be given 3 points for a gold medal, 2 points for a silver medal and 1 point for a bronze medal (individual or team placing).

There could be also a specific ranking regarding the juniors results. Number of points allocated could be different considering it is a specific Junior Championships and a Junior placing for classes where there are no specific junior Championship.

4- Airsports Promotion classes (F6)

In my opinion, there is no real place for specific promotional classes. The Subcommittes have to take in account attractiveness for spectators and medias. An alternative solution to the F6 classes is an adaptation of the rules of World Championship classes with local rules for specific category 1 events such World Air Games or World Games (Cali 2013). F6A can be replaced by F3M adapted rules, F6B (AeroMusicals) by F3P adapted rules, F6D (Hand Thrown Gliders) by F3K adapted rules. For Artistic Aerobatic, adaptation of F3M and/or F3N can be considered.

Remark: it is not appropriate to maintain the specific Working Group for Airsports Promotion classes. That is the responsability of the Subcommittees on behalf the CIAM Bureau to suggest adaptations of the rules in order to be more attractive for the public and the medias for specific events.

 

Bruno Delor

94 comments to F3B World Championship in future?! CANCELED!

  • Sylvain,

    Could you explain to us How the French NAC Representative have the right to talk by himself in a proposal sent to FAI-CIAM?

    How does the French NAC work? The one that holds the power do whatever he wants with it? There are no internal processes on how to deal with this issues? No OPEN discussion boards in the French NAC? No proposal Voting before a document is submitted to FAI in the name of the French NAC?

    Thanks.

  • Sylvain

    Hi Francisco,
    French Nac is a heavy machine with different rôles and responsabilities. People helping like myself are proposed by competitors and NAC. We prepare the agenda, we help organisation for events,we propose new local rules when necessary, we translate FAI rules but we don’t vote except if we are club president …
    We receive agenda and proposal for Ciam meeting and there is room to give an advice to our representativ. So we have the proposal and I guess that if I say “please try to reject or vote one proposal /motion”, our advice will be follow … This is not mandatory for our representativ to do it but I think he will.
    For elections (TBC because I never follow that with real attention) , I think that club president or delegates vote for the “bureau” and the bureau vote for the president. Not 100% clear that our president is automatically the representant for CIAM…
    Anyway, if a proposal is linked to F3B, normally, my opinion will be respected.
    So the surprise this year was the “open forum”. At that moment, no official proposal about associated item have moved to official meeting proposal and we have not been queried about.
    In parallele, technical meeting are held to discuss about Nac or categories items. As we have many categories, some groups are build to have representatives to these technical meeting. We might participate (invited) depending on subject and if we can join (we are normal workers and competitors and it is not always easy to join). Call conference or skype meeting could be good ideas to improve this point and reduce travel costs.
    It seems that for some subjects, our elected representatives take there responsabillities by themselves. It is quite normal for administratives tasks.

    Me and the four gliders categories representatives have then send a letter to react to “open forum” because we agree with you that we should have been implied in French position about proposal…or at least, the proposal should have been explicitly expressed as personnal one.
    It should have result I think.
    Anyway, if the issue is cost reduction requested by CIAM top managers or budget concern, it seems normal to have open meeting or commission to discuss these subjects. If the output of these brain storming are then discussed with us before voting, it’s fair.
    I hope it will be done this way but if the budget concerns are real, some reduction will happend somwhere. I hope that good transparency will bring “no too bad” choices. No all countries representatives are knowing our gliders categories and the major risk is there. Not sure at all that others categories than gliders won’t suffer too. So it is important to know where the money is used!
    Now that risks are identified, I think we will argue a lot on the contests fields in order to propose better alternativ solutions.
    For exemple, part of the money could be used to find and convice sponsors and organize promotion better than today…

    Again, thank’s to Roman for information sourcing !

  • Hi Sylvain,

    Thank you very very much for your extended explanation. In the same way I do, I am pretty sure most of us is appreciating your time and transparency exercise explaining most of the concerns related to this issue.

    Seems pretty obvious to all of us, at this point, that the issue here is a reduced budget to cover costs.

    I think Tom was able to tell us that 1/3 of the total budget goes to administrative duties.

    Here my simple question:

    How much does it cost to FAI to “organize” a World Championship, for let say… f3b???

  • Dear all,
    bellow are some important fractions of communication regarding our matter. Although maybe in first stage this was not intended as public, I’m sure this case became top public. (Note Kevin Dodd is FAI CIAM 2-nd vice president)

    Dear Kevin,
    Attached I send you the opinion of RC Soaring Subcommittee Members concerning the proposal to reduce the number of RC Soaring World Championships as expressed in the letter of Bruno Delor. I expect that you would consider these ideas in the matter you prepare for discussion at the CIAM Plenary Meeting.
    I would like to stress that the present RC Soaring World Championships were introduced in order to serve the modelers which fly the different kinds of RC Soaring. Mostly the aim was to avoid the situation we meet at jet model aircraft. I am convinced that by canceling the RC soaring championships in FAI they would not disappear. They would be just organized outside, joining the RC Combat World Championship and Jet model aircraft World Championship, decreasing the role of FAI in the aero modeling world.
    Best regards
    Tomas Bartovsky
    RC Soaring Subcommittee Chairman

    RC Soaring Subcommittee replies

    Ralf Decker (GER)
    RC Soaring Subcommittee member
    FAI-World Cup coordinator F3B
    The opinion of Bruno concerning the soaring classes is totally wrong: We need World Championships in all classes F3B, F3F, F3J and F3K how it is at the moment. I can´t believe that Bruno writes that the two classes F3B and F3J are close. Everybody knows that they are not close, but very different.
    May be that the one and other class is more or less attractive for the TV. But for me it´s not clear which class is the most attractive; I´m sure that it is not F3J. But at the other hand our sport is not so attractive that we will have big interest of the TV at all; therefore this is no criterion for a selection which class should have World Championship status or not. The most interested people will be the modellers themselves. For them it´s not important which class is on the TV.
    The class F3B is very popular and the interest in FAI-World Cup competitions is increasing; but the most interest for the pilots is to take part at a World Championship.
    If we look at the different FAI-World Cup competitions F3B in Europe we see that in most cases it is necessary to limit the number of competitors and/or to organize competitions which last three days. For the FAI-World Cup competitions we have an online-registration; mostly 10 minutes after the start of the registration the competition is fully booked or in some cases overbooked.
    That means that the class F3B is extremely popular; to keep it popular in the future it is very important to keep the World Championships running; FAI-World Cup competitions are no replacement for World Championships.
    Attached you will find an excel-sheet which shows very impressive the situation of the past 18 World Championships F3B.
    In total 1043 pilots took part at the 18 WC; that means in average 57,9 pilots per WC.
    In total 42 different nations were present. In the average there were 20,1 nations per WC.
    In the past I never can remember that there was a problem to find organizers for F3B World Championships. Also for the next years there is much interest from different countries to organize F3B World Championships. I heard that also the USA, motivated be the successful FAI-World Cup competitions in Florida, are thinking about organizing a F3B-World Championship in the near future.
    Without any doubt the organization of a F3B-competition is more complex than in the other soaring classes; therefore the organization of Continental Championships stopped some years ago, because the organizers use the power rather for World Championships.
    The cost for the organization of a World Championship is carried by the NAC and/or the organizer; there is no risk for the FAI at all. The decision which team in which class will take part at a WC will be taken by the NAC, depending on the actual situation.
    The only wise idea would be to fix a minimum number of pilots and a minimum number of nations for a World Championship. If I´m right the minimum number of nations is at the moment 4; this minimum number of nations is too low especially for classes like F3B with group scoring. To comply with the rules (minimum 5 pilots in a duration-group, pilots of one nation not flying one against the other, teams with five pilots that means with the defending champion and a youngster) we need more nations.
    It would be a good job for Bruno to make a data collection for all WC in all classes over at least 10 years or more.
    With this knowledge we can find out at one side which classes are popular or less popular and at the other side we can find out the existing minimum of pilots and nation which were present at the WC in the past. With this information we can make objective decisions and are not dependent on Bruno´s gut feeling.
    To cancel F3F because of the bigger influence of the weather conditions is a very strange thinking. There are many F3F-competitions at the different places and I never heard about that any of them must be cancelled because of the weather conditions.
    It is true that low wind speeds are not so good for F3F (3 ≤ vw ≤ 25 m/s); to have fair conditions for all pilots the wind speed and the maximal deviation of the wind direction is fixed in the rule.
    At the other side very high wind speeds are not very convenient for F3B and F3J (12 m/s ≤ vw) and especially for F3K (9 m/s).
    I think that for all classes which take part outdoor bad weather conditions can arouse problems.
    But also classes (e.g. F3P) which are hosted in closed rooms can get problems with perhaps the air conditioner.
    Hopefully Bruno will find other classes to cancel World Championships. The soaring classes are absolutely not appropriate.

    Robert Herzog (BEL)
    RC Soaring Subcommittee member
    CIAM Delegate
    I totally agree with Ralf about the need to keep several soaring classes at World Championship level, and F3B, F3J and F3K are certainly among these. The very large participation at international contests in these classes, at least at the European level, is the proof of this need. The case for F3F is less clear, as it requires specific conditions not available in many countries. This is the place where exclusion of W.Ch. status could be acting, based on too few countries participating, if this situation ever happened.
    The “attractiveness” of aeromodeling competitions for the public at large (or TV) is not going to change significantly over the next years, as it is very unlikely that the rules will change significantly.
    Specific categories have been devised to attract public attention (Artistic Aerobatics and Aeromusicals), combining music and flying models. From the experience of the WAG2009, the potential success of these classes to attract public and TV is very real. But these should never become W.Ch. classes, only “demonstration classes”. The case of F6D, kind of a special F3K event, is less clear. Minor adaptation of F3K rules could make this event a good show for the public. We shall not underestimate the physical espect of this class, which is the probably the most physical of all aeromodeling events, even if the models weight only 200 g.
    Grouping several classes during championships is certainly part of the answer for those who consider CIAM has too many classes (I am not part of that group). E.g. grouping F3D, F3R and F5D which are pylon racing classes is obvious.
    Other categories could be brought together based on similar field setup (e.g. F3B and F5B…).
    CIAM has to be open at all times for new developments and create W.Ch. classes for them as soon as they develop at a certain level. F3K is the perfect example. And the reluctance for CIAM to recognize more that 10 years ago very attractive classes like Jet Scale Models has the sad result that this class now develops outside FAI.

    Terry Edmonds (USA)
    RC Soaring Subcommittee member
    Our mission on the RC Soaring Sub-Committee is and has been to promote competition classes in RC soaring. I believe we have done a good job of that over the years by introducing new soaring classes and bringing some of them to the level of World Championship status. As such we should resist any attempt to reduce the status of those classes. However we may be forced to address this matter and we should be thinking about ways to deal with it. It is best to have a good defence for a potential offense. For example the idea of a multiclass world soaring championship has not been favoured by this sub-committee and has many problems but maybe we should revisit that idea as a backup plan. I suggest we get some dialog going within the sub-committee on this threat.

    Hilsen Jo Grini (NOR)
    RC Soaring Subcommittee member
    Kass./sekr. Vfkm.no
    Gruppeleder F3J/F3K
    Leder av Sikkerhetsutvalget NLF/modell
    Leder valgkomite NLF/modell
    Here is a few words about F3F after talking to coordinator and pilots
    – F3F is the only competitive class to be flown from the slopes.
    – F3F uses wind to propel and energise the model. Managing the natural elements to increase flight performance is a key attraction of the class.
    – F3F is clean and environmentally friendly. Only the timing equipment is required to be be taken to the slope, allowing the course to be quickly constructed, with minimum effort from the CD and helpers.
    – F3F is an exciting speed class. It is well suited to media coverage and attractive as a spectator sport. The discipline should be retained and used to promote slope soaring to the wider public.
    – F3F uses natural and sometimes remote environments, often requiring pilots to undertake long and energetic walks to reach the slopes. The discipline promotes the need for physical fitness and healthy lifestyles.
    – F3F is one of the oldest and most established soaring classes, which began more than 38 years ago.
    – F3F has recently been awarded World Class status. Given the considerable effort invested to achieve this outcome, and the overall popularity of F3F, the class should not be decommissioned after only 1 year.
    – F3F has driven many advancements in model sailplane technology, aerodynamic design, and construction techniques, much of which has been passed down to sport fliers and manufacturers of non-competitive soaring models. The outcome being to increase the quality of the airframes flown from the slope at a club level.
    – F3F provides the pilot with an opportunity to test their skills on a timed course with minimum effort and outlay. The outcome often leads to continued attendance at slope events, but in many cases also encourages the pilot to compete in other classes, particularly F3B.
    – F3F has motivated model manufacturers to design and build new airframes for the class, leading to the establishment of small but profitable businesses around the world, most notably in Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Asia Pacific Rim. The continued support for the F3F class would serve to assist and potentially increase model sales for the existing manufacturers, and incentivise new businesses to develop airframes for F3F. Economically, the continued support for the class is desirable and important.

    Richard Swindells (GBR)
    RC Soaring SC member
    I agree with keeping all 4 (F3B, F3F, F3J and F3K) as World Championship classes. I can see no practical argument for discarding any of these. If anything we will need room for more WC classes given the popularity of the newer electric soaring events. I find the statement that there are “too many Soaring WC events” without justification. I too cannot understand why F3F is labelled as dependant on weather, when in fact they fly in a wider range of conditions than any other class.

  • …and here is the answer

    Thanks Tomas,

    I appreciate the time taken to send the opinion of the RC Soaring Subcommittee and its members.

    It would appear that following the letter circulated by Bruno Delor, many have jumped to the conclusion that CIAM is in fact at a stage of making decisions on removing certain classes of Championships. Could I assure you and all other interested members that this is definitely not the case.

    Three years ago Plenary moved and passed a motion to look at reducing the number of Championships classes being held each year; since then at least four new classes have been added. The current CIAM Bureau decided that this task needed to be followed up as an action and at the December 2012 Bureau I volunteered to initiate this action on behalf of the CIAM Plenary and start a procedure of logical, mutually agreed, open and accountable process, to achieve the request of Plenary.

    The initial process was to ask all CIAM Subcommittees for input, not on which classes should be taken away, but on how they considered the process should and could be achieved. Many of the Subcommittee Chairman replied with constructive comments, both for an against the process, there were some who did not reply.

    These comments, about 50 in all, were all related to achieving a process that will form a base line which can be debated by the 2013 CIAM Plenary. Could I also say that none of the comments received at the time, related to any model discipline at all.

    It is my intention to circulate the list of comments received prior to the 2013 Plenary (hopefully in the next two weeks) and as stated in the agenda, will chair an open forum on the subject. While I am not in a position to pre-empt what Plenary may decide, based on the initial list of comments, there is a strong case for Plenary to take certain immediate actions (not involving the removal of any classes) then move to more debate in the future on how the outcomes may be achieved.

    In conclusion, and my opinion only, it would be extremely unlikely that any model Championship which is well run, well patronised by competitors, well promoted and popular would ever have its existence questioned.

    I look forward to chatting with you in a month.

    Regards

    Kevin Dodd
    CIAM 2nd VP

  • Ok, good then… So, lets go to the facts:

    1 – We know that there is a real intention to reduce the numbers of World Championships.
    2 – We know that ALL categories are going to be evaluated for this.
    3 – We do know that the cost per delegate to attend CIAM Plenary is in the range of 2000US$

    Still the questions are:

    1 – Why do they want/need to reduce its number?
    2 – How much does it cost to FAI to “organize” each World Championship?
    3 – How many delegates use to attend the CIAM Plenary?

  • BD:
    “I clearly support the idea of reduction the number of Championships and the number of classes. There are various arguments for that.”

    “There is no other sport with so many World Championships.”

    Mmmm… let me see… just a quick one… Swimming, Athleticims, Shooting…

    This is going to end up badly! In an effort trying to save our category, we are not caring on the overall activity.

    “Divide and Conquer”

  • This is where it is going to be discussed what categories are going to disappear and how many world championships are going to be discarded:

    http://www.moevenpick-hotels.com/en/europe/switzerland/lausanne/hotel-lausanne/overview/

  • Mm, hotel so so. Do we know menu? If they don’t serve Czech apricot dumplings with cream and poppy seeds, nothing to envy (smile).

  • Menu:

    http://www.moevenpick-hotels.com/en/europe/switzerland/lausanne/hotel-lausanne/restaurants/restaurants/

    You have three options:
    1: La Brasserie
    2: La Pêcherie
    3: Le Jardin

    But I doubt they will let you have diner in the kitchen like the picture you have shown us. That is for only high performers!

  • I have been looking at some regulations for some classes. In all of them, the first thing we get is:

    RIGHTS TO FAI INTERNATIONAL SPORTING EVENTS
    All international sporting events organised wholly or partly under the rules of the Fédération
    Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) Sporting Code1 are termed FAI International Sporting Events2. Under the FAI Statutes3, FAI owns and controls all rights relating to FAI International Sporting Events. FAI Members4 shall, within their national territories5, enforce FAI ownership of FAI International Sporting Events and require them to be registered in the FAI Sporting Calendar6.
    Permission and authority to exploit any rights to any commercial activity at such events, including but not limited to advertising at or for such events, use of the event name or logo for merchandising purposes and use of any sound and/or image, whether recorded electronically or otherwise or transmitted in real time, must be sought by way of prior agreement with FAI. This includes specifically all rights to the use of any material, electronic or other, that forms part of any method or system for judging, scoring, performance evaluation or information utilised in any FAI International Sporting Event7.
    Each FAI Air Sport Commission8 is authorised to negotiate prior agreements on behalf of FAI with FAI Members or other entities as appropriate, of the transfer of all or parts of the rights to any FAI International Sporting Event (except World Air Games events9) which is organised wholly or partly under the Sporting Code section10 for which that Commission is responsible11. Any such transfer of rights shall be by “Organiser Agreement”12 as specified in the current FAI Bylaws Chapter 1, para 1.2 “Rules for Transfer of Rights to FAI International Sporting Events”.
    Any person or legal entity which accepts the responsibility for organising an FAI Sporting Event,
    whether or not by written agreement, in doing so also accepts the proprietary rights of FAI as stated above. Where no formal transfer of rights has been established, FAI retains all rights to the event.
    Regardless of any agreement or transfer of rights, FAI shall have, free of charge for its own archival and/or promotional use, full access to any sound and/or visual images of any FAI Sporting Event, and always reserves itself the right to have any and all parts of any event recorded, filmed and/or photographed for such use, without charge.

    Then I went to the Statutes:

    http://www.fai.org/downloads/fai/fai_statutes

    GENERAL PROVISIONS
    1.1. ORGANIZATION OF FAI
    1.1.1. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) is a world federation consisting of
    national and international aeronautic and astronautic organisations subscribing to the Statutes.
    1.1.2. The FAI was founded in 1905. It is a non-governmental and non-profit making international
    organisation which refrains from involvement in racial, political, and religious differences in
    the course of its activities.
    1.1.7. The FAI is a non-profit-making organisation in accordance with the provisions of Article 60
    ff of the Swiss Civil Code and has its Headquarters in Lausanne. This Headquarters may
    be relocated upon a decision of the General Conference in accordance with Paragraph 1.4.2.

    1.2. THE AIMS AND OBJECTIVES OF FAI
    1.2.1. To make evident the essentially international spirit of aeronautics as a powerful instrument for bringing all people closer in mutual understanding and friendship regardless of political, racial or religious considerations, thereby helping to create international good will and thus build a better and more peaceful world.
    1.2.2. To promote physical and moral qualities, technical knowledge and skill as basic to
    astronautical activities and air sports.
    1.2.3. To bring together the air sports men and women of the world in international competition.
    1.2.4. To educate young people through sport in the spirit of mutual understanding and
    friendship.
    1.2.5. To co-ordinate its Members’ separate efforts to further aeronautics and astronautics
    throughout the world.
    1.2.6. To ensure adequate access to airspace for all who wish to fly.
    1.2.7. To provide a forum for the exchange of information and discussion of mutual problems with
    other elements of civil aeronautics.

    7.2. FAI INCOME
    7.2.1. FAI income shall be applied solely in support of the aims and objectives set forth in
    Paragraph 1.2 and shall be derived from two principal sources:
    7.2.1.1. – membership subscriptions, and
    7.2.1.2. – existing and future income from air sports, donations, bequests, marketing and other
    activities.

    Something is not looking that good here. Being a non-profit-making oraganization, looks to me that is taking too much care on the financial portion of the activity.

  • The Swiss Civil Code
    (English Version)
    http://www.servas.org/siexco/images/0/07/The_Swiss_Civil_Code_in_English.pdf

    Chapter II: Societies
    Art. 60
    A. Formation
    I. Incorporation
    Associations which have a political, religious, scientific, artistic, charitable,
    social, or any other than an industrial object, acquire the status of a person as soon as they
    show by their constitution their intention to have a corporate existence.
    The constitution must be drawn up in writing and state the object, the capital and
    the organization of the society.
    (the word “association” is here used as a generic term, whereas “society” is confined, except in
    combination with “co-operative”, to associations with non-commercial objects, which form the subject of
    this chapter.)
    Art. 61
    II. Registration
    When the constitution of a society has been passed and its directorate appointed, it
    can be registered in the commercial register in the commercial register.
    (i.e. registration is optional; it is not required by law and does not affect the status of the
    association.)
    If for the better attainment of its object the society carries on an industry on
    commercial lines, registration is compulsory.
    (Here the industry is merely of a subsidiary character, and does not form the principal object of
    the society; for if this were its principal object, the association would fall under the art. 59 paragraph 2,
    above and not be included in this Code but be governed by the Code of Obligations.)
    The application for registration must be accompanied by the written constitution
    and the names of the directors,
    Art. 62
    III. Societies
    not incorporated
    Societies that cannot acquire or have not yet acquired the status of a person, are
    governed by the same rules as partnerships.
    (For the rules governing partnerships see CO arts. 530 et seq.)
    Art. 63
    IV. Relation between
    Constitution and law
    The following provisions apply in so far as the constitution of a society does not
    contain regulations about its organization and the relations between the society and its
    members.
    No constitution can modify provisions which are laid down by law as binding in
    all cases.
    Art. 64
    B. Organization
    I. General Meeting
    1. Its function
    and summons
    The general meeting of the members is the highest organ of society.
    It is summoned by the directors
    The conditions for its summons are laid down by the constitution; in any case the
    law requires that it be summoned on the demand of one fifth of the members.
    Art. 65
    2. Powers
    The general meeting decides on the admission and expulsion of members,
    appoints the directors and disposes of all matters not specifically assigned to any other
    organ of the society.
    The general meeting has the control of the other organs of the society and can at
    any time revoke the authority conferred upon them, without prejudice, however, to any
    rights which they may possess by special agreement.
    The power of revocation on material grounds is an absolute right granted to the
    general meeting by law.
    (i.e. it cannot be taken away or restricted by the constitution of the society.)
    Art. 66
    Resolutions affecting the society must be passed by the general meeting.
    Where all members assent in writing to a motion, this is equivalent to a resolution
    by the general meeting.
    Art. 67
    All members have equal votes at the general meeting.
    Resolutions are passed by a majority of the members present.
    They cannot be passed on motions that are not on the agenda, unless the
    constitution expressly sanctions it.
    Art. 68
    No member is by law allowed to vote on motions that relate to any transaction or
    legal proceedings between the society of the one part himself, his spouse or any of his
    ascendants or descendants in a direct line of the other part.
    Art. 69
    The directors have the right and the duty to manage the affairs of the society and
    to represent it in accordance with the provisions of its constitution.
    Art. 70
    A society can at any time admit new members.
    All members are by law entitled to resign their membership, provided they give
    notice of their intention at least six months before the end of a calendar year or, if a
    definite period of membership has been fixed, at least six months before the end of that
    period.
    Membership is inalienable and does not pass on death.
    Art. 71
    Members’ subscriptions are fixed by the constitution of the society.
    Where it does not fix them, members must contribute equally to the necessary
    expenses incurred in carrying out the object of the society and to the payment of its debts.
    Art. 72
    The constitution can determine the grounds for the expulsion of a member. It can
    also sanction expulsion with non-disclosure of the grounds.
    In this case no right of action arises in regard to the grounds for the expulsion.
    (i.e. a member cannot sue where he has been expelled either for the grounds sanctioned in the
    constitution of the society or without being informed of the grounds, if in this latter case the constitution
    expressly provides that the grounds need not be disclosed.)
    Where, however, the constitution contains no provisions on this point, a member
    can be expelled only by a resolution passed at a general meeting and on material grounds.
    Art. 73
    Members who resign or are expelled from a society lose all rights over the
    common property of the society.
    They continue to be liable to pay a proper proportion of their subscription
    according to the period of their membership.
    Art. 74
    No change in the object of the society can be forced upon any of its members.
    Art. 75
    Every member of a society is absolutely entitled by law to apply to the court to
    avoid any resolutions passed by the society without this assent, which are contrary to law
    or the constitution of the society, p0roviided the application is made within one month
    from the day on which he became cognizant of such resolutions.
    Art. 76
    A society can at any time resolve upon its own dissolution.
    Art. 77
    A society is dissolved by operation of law, when it has ceased to be solvent or
    when it has become impossible to appoint a directorate in accordance with its
    constitution.
    Art. 78
    The court will, on the application of the competent authority or of an interested
    party, declare a society dissolved, where it has an illegal or immoral object.
    (The competence of the authority for this purpose is a matter for Cantonal Law.)
    Art. 79
    Where a society is entered in the commercial register, its dissolution must be
    notified to the registrar by the directors or by the court for the erasure of the entry.

  • Somebody wrote somewhere:

    “… I know all above sounds simple, but things are not so simple. There are many partial interests, hidden diplomacy, animosities, friendliness etc. like everywhere. Doesn’t matter our goal is clear. Try to help us and protect RC Soaring Worldwide…”

    And some others say:
    “Politics is the art of the possible” [Prince Otto von Bismarck]
    “A week is a long time in politics” [Harold Wilson]
    “Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable” [John Kenneth Galbraith Ambassador’s Journal]
    “Politics…has always been the systematic organisation of hatreds” [Henry Brooks Adams The Education of Henry Adams]
    “Practical politics consists in ignoring facts” [Henry Brooks Adams The Education of Henry Adams]
    “In politics the middle way is none at all” [John Adams]
    “In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly” [Samuel Taylor Coleridge Table Talk]
    “There is a holy mistaken zeal in politics as well as in religion. By persuading others, we convince ourselves” [Junius Public Advertiser]
    “Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed” [Mao Tse-tung]
    “Politics is perhaps the only profession for which no preparation is thought necessary” [Robert Louis Stevenson Familiar Studies of Men and Books]
    “Most schemes of political improvement are very laughable things” [Dr. Johnson]
    “politics: a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage” [Ambrose Bierce The Devil’s Dictionary]
    Proverbs
    “Politics makes strange bedfellows”

    Is this what we are talking about? To destroy just because political interests? to kill each other just to have one winner? That primitive we are?

  • And before all this happened, some crazy guys met and came uw with this interesting idea:

    1.1.2. The FAI was founded in 1905. It is a non-governmental and non-profit making international
    organisation which refrains from involvement in racial, political, and religious differences in
    the course of its activities.

    1.2. THE AIMS AND OBJECTIVES OF FAI
    1.2.1. To make evident the essentially international spirit of aeronautics as a powerful instrument for bringing all people closer in mutual understanding and friendship regardless of political, racial or religious considerations, thereby helping to create international good will and thus build a better and more peaceful world.
    1.2.2. To promote physical and moral qualities, technical knowledge and skill as basic to
    astronautical activities and air sports.
    1.2.3. To bring together the air sports men and women of the world in international competition.
    1.2.4. To educate young people through sport in the spirit of mutual understanding and
    friendship.

    “… instrument for bringing all people closer in mutual understanding and friendship … helping to create international good will and thus build a better and more peaceful world.”

    These guys were most probalby drunk when they decided to write this document.

  • Hi Francisco,
    seems to me we are slowly more and more off topic, too much words. Main purpose of my originally published B.D. letter was to protect our sport. Hopefully helped to the most of us to realize from where we can expect threat.

    Some of us were doing the best to take appropriate measures. After FAI CIAM Plenary (April) we will see if all that words above were worth one penny. Let’s see.

  • Dear Roman,

    Words are always worth morre than a simple penny! As long as we want to call us humans and not just semi-developed animals.

    If you try to play their game, you are lost… believe me, they have way much more experience than any of us in that field and there is always a way to justify a destruction.

    Like this proverb: “The wolf will always find a reason to take the lamb”

    The problem is that we are such “corrupted” and used to that, that we do not realize that FAI was created SPECIFICALLY to prevent this type of behavior. How can you say that the Statutes of FAI are OFF-TOPIC? FAI, without their statutes is NOTHING. If somebody do not agree with them, President, Committee Member, or anybody with a FAI license, it has to be automatically expulsed from it. There is no room for anybody that criticize those documents.

    What it is insane for me is that we accept as normal all those partial interests, hidden diplomacy, animosities, friendliness etc. like everywhere, but FAI and others are not everywhere, they are “Associations” that were specifically created to prevent those behaviors in this activity.

    Would you like me to tell you my experience on National Federations from countries that didn’t take care on protecting those basic principles and how are they doing now and how are their competitors performing? I have a lot of examples to tell you, personal ones, and very famous ones…

    Do you want to hear how Quique Somenzini, you know, that guy that flies F3A, form Argentina, ended up being F3A World Champion with a USA license? You can tell me that it is off-topic, but not… This is the topic…

    We created hobbies to be able to “disconnect” from the mediocrity of “real life”, to set up a basic set of rules where to focus and increase our skills in a global environment, like it was said back in 1905 “…helping to create international good will and thus build a better and more peaceful world” not my words, FAI statutes ones. And just after only 100 years we have killed that?

    I know, I know… This sounds platonic, ideological, whatever, but this is real life as well. And we better protect this if we do not want to give our kids a worse world than the one we got, just because we are not brave enough to even express this ideas in public.

    To be practical… If as a consequence of this Plenary, ANY aero model category ends up being damaged, I will use all my resources to process an official claim against it, based in the statutes of the FAI and the Swiss Civil Code, if proceed, in an effort to protect our sport.

    You do it in their way, I will do it in mine… Will see what is more effective.

    What about that?

  • Hi Francisco,
    I never had problem with criticism. Just read my blog back to 90’s.

    Use any resources you consider effective. Many your proposals are worth fighting (video conferencing, open budget reports etc.), really I have no problem with it. I agree with you. I support you.

    There is Open Forum at FAI CIAM plenary this April. There wasn’t too much time left. I thought it’s my interest to protect not only our sports (F3X), therefore I wrote this article. I considered this simple way to be the most effective for me at this moment.

    There are many people going to April Lausanne aware of this threat and they will protect our matter, I’m sure. I don’t think so that one weird letter from one person says everything about FAI. Bruno Delor is not FAI CIAM.

    Just look above to comments of this article. Long time only yours and my contributions. We are loosing attention of people and that’s bad. We are wrong, not them. Our discussion is becoming general and woolly. Let’s be effective. I will wait for Lausanne Open Forum results and then I will ask Czech FAI CIAM Delegate about possibly other necessary steps to protect spirit of RCS.

    Once when we will be Seventy and above we will meet (as Delegates) in Lausanne at FAI CIAM Plenary and we will make another October Revolution, OK?! Hopefully there is some river in Lausanne where I can anchor my Aurora.

    Nice flying weekend Francisco. Here is bloody cold and permanently snowing although we have already spring. Anyhow yesterday I made virgin flight of my new toy for this year F3B season. I lost nearly all my fingers… Next weekend we have this year 1-st F3B contest here in Jesenik. Will you come? We can sit together in nightclub and I’m sure we will solve most pains of this fucking world.

  • Hi Roman,

    Simple and short… We are in the same side… we just use different approaches to help the practice of the sport. I do not have your contacts and media influence, so I will have to go straight forward to the roots of the system, that is why they were developed, to protect it.

    If somebody thinks that I am joking, soon he will realize that he is wrong. This is what mediocrity does… to forget why, what and where we are!!!

    I do not want to make history twice, but I did manage to do it in the Spanish NAC when I fought to make, for the first time in history, to sanction the president of the Model Committee in the NAC. (If you want details, i have a lot)

    To overcome the statutes of an association feels like easy and simple, but it is one of the most serious thing you can do. Remember that you are dealing with the Civil Code, so…

    We are losing interest??? sure… so far nobody has explained here WHY THE NEED TO KILL CLASSES???

    When people start to develop “plans” on how to do that and how to protect his one, is he taking under consideration the chain reaction that it will create?

    We are talking here about F3b, F3f, … all of them are the last link of a long chain that starts unpredictable with any of the others. I did start doing free flight in the middle of nowhere, some others doing Line Control, and so on… How much longer is F3b going to last if we start to destroy the roots?

    Have anybody put his head out of the box and though in the international impact of killing classes? Most of the world is not Europe, where you take your car and in half a day you can be in anywhere dealing with producers, designers, people practicing several classes? Have you though how is the practice of the model flying in places like Argentina? South Africa, for example? For sure not. People practicing classes where they can not afford the high-end material?

    As long as the main question is not answered, anything done here is against the statutes of FAI. If somebody think they make no sense at all, that person does not belong to FAI any more. FAI is what its statutes says it is, not what you think it is.

    So… I will also wait for the Plenary, and will take good care on everything decided there… Then I will make a simple move, and we will see how LEGAL is all this thing!

    Jesenik comp, good to know, regards to all people there, I miss all of them. I will be tomorrow morning helping some people with their f3b material. Australia should win the next WCH in Germany! 😉

    Also, I have been programming the micro-controller for the F3b-gps device, testing a new approach to get the position reliably back to ground at 10Hz and real time. Soon you will have news about that.

    Pusinkus!

  • Have you though how is the practice of the model flying in places like Argentina? South Africa, for example? For sure not. People practicing classes where they can not afford the high-end material?

    Censored. Perhaps too much ego involved in my reply.

    Yeahh, we should redirect this discussion to PM. Please, send me to PM details about that Spanish story.

    It’s late evening here. Going to feed my car with that funny plastic stuff for indoor flying and heading to gym.

    Pusinkus na Cecikus!

    P.S. No doubt that Aussies are going to win Nardt. We spent a lot of time with John “Tassie” Skinner in XLFR5 to optimize my Stinger and his Fosas…

  • Details for the PM??? Just simple ones… They better take a lot of care on what “new ideas” they develop and how do they put them on practice. After the ball start to roll, things can be serious and when a process starts, nobody knows how it is going to end up!

    They are dealing with International Civil Rights pilots got in their corresponding countries qualifying themselves for coming WCH’s. Some others have certain sportive status as a direct consequence of their performance in past WCH’s. What is FAI going to do about them? Just to say… I am sorry, you lost all your rights… try again in a different class!!!

    For the Civil Code, there is not difference between model flying sport or any other given one you want to name, if you are called to represent your country in an international event, the government of your country can take actions on that.

    Play with that, and you will see how serious the situation can be.

    Simple question: How many other classes have been eliminated from any other sport covered by FAI ever before? Is this going to be the first time?

  • Ok, seems that EVERYTHING IS SOLVED NOW!!!

    No more discussions, no more information, no more nothing… THIS IS THE WAY THIS WORKS when you start to apply politics to non-political activities.

    Ahh… yeah… this is the way the WORLD works… well then… I will tell you what is coming then…

    It was a time when to have the money on banks was safe, do you remember that? Well… back in 2001 Argentina had the “great idea” to take the money from the banks deposit to pay the government debt… Ahhhhhhhh… that is something that ONLY happen in 3rd World Countries… no? Now we have it in Cyprus, the UE is considering to do that in ALL EUROPE, France and Spain Governments are SCARED not to let the people start thinking that it can happen also there…

    Why I come to this now? Simple… Not too long ago, when you decided to fly a National competition in Argentina or Spain, it was there a representative from the NAC, checking the Km you drove to participate in the National Competition, immediately he gave you a check with the expenses of that trip. Also he was controlling the competition to be done under the NACs conditions and protecting the “fair play”, crazy no?. If it was a qualifying competition, he did manage to keep the scores and prepare the ranking… The team selected had all expenses paid by the NAC…

    Just few years later… not that much… about 15 ONLY, this is how it works…

    You go to a competition, nobody is there waiting for you. At 11:00am they decide to start flying if you are lucky, Not so clear who is the Contest Director and Who is the person in charge of the competition. If it is F3b, for example… always, after the flights you have to fight to get the right results… depending on where you finish the flight in distance, you “should have” odds or even numbers of laps… that is a rule that not always apply to these comps… You can perfectly have even numbers of laps finishing in the B base, so a lot of fun!!!

    When you fly duration, you better take a picture of the landing point and the distance… after two weeks you may need it to defend yourself… that if somebody wants to hear you…

    You fly competitions without having any idea on provisional results… even more… you leave the field after the competition is done and you do not have any idea on results… Two weeks later you get the first DRAFT of results, and then is when you realized that it was a dream that two weeks ago you were there doing that…

    If you do not like this, it is up to you to decide keep wasting time and money repeating the same thing… Or, if you are “innocent” as I was, you start to claim in the NAC.

    Ahhh… what do you think it happened after that?

    Here what you should think about… how did we manage to jump from a serious activity to what it is right now? In my understanding, that is called corruption, and corruption comes with lack of transparency and destructive attitude! Both of them part of the political behavior! Sounds this familiar to this case?

  • Hi Francisco,
    I wouldn’t see it so tragic. In WorldCup Contests it’s working nearly OK. I was recommending to organizers already years ago to publish running results systematically. It helps even them (org. staff) to find mistakes (there are always mistakes) and avoid some surprises.

    I would also recommend to publish final results at least 30 minutes (1 hour better) before price giving. It can also help to fix some mistakes. BTW how you can protest against results if you don’t know them? Very often organizer treats final results as some kind of KinderSurprise Eggs. Solution is just talk to people.

  • Hi Roman,

    Few short answers to you”

    R: “I wouldn’t see it so tragic”
    F: If you let me keep telling my experience, then we will discuss if it is tragic or not, ok?

    R: “how you can protest against results if you don’t know them?”
    F: Ahhhh… I always knew that you are one of the very smart ones… Do you know that the best intelligence tests are based in the ability to make the right questions rather than providing the right answer???

    Next chapter soon…

  • Ahy Roman, Roman… I have been all the night thinking on you…

    That attitude you have will create a lot of problems to you if you think you have anything similar to a kind of right to protest against results in any of my dear loved countries.

    I will tell you how it works in Spain first… You have an issue in one flight, ok? You want to protest against that particular result… ok? I will pay you 1M Euros if you find the person to whom you should talk to discuss that event. As it will take you more than 30min to find him, then you lose your right to protest according the NAC’s regulation.
    Let stay that you are not agree with the “final results’, perfectly possible… Well, if you were not able to find that person in your first attempt, then you will not have much luck in your final one… You are still there looking for a Ghost in the middle of nowhere… Suddenly you realize that somebody that is passing near the airfield has called the Police as your behavior is looking suspicious, alone, there, clamming for God to bring that person back to ground. So, you pick up your stuffs and drive home with nothing but a big impotence feeling and a very frustrated experience.

    Not that long ago, you will understand that “some people” are using that event to make bad jokes about you and trying to destroy your name and reputation everywhere they go. They do not take any care on the facts, that does not matter… What it really is important is that you were not able to perform in the competition and that you are being blamed from top to bottom in your attitude to look for some fairness in the game.

    Then you say, It is time to elevate the issue to the NAC. You call them to understand the way that process should work, as you want to submit an official protest against the competition. The president of the Model Committee, close friend of the organizers of the competition, tells you to send an email to him. You say, no no no… you want to open an official claim to be investigated… He keeps saying to send him a draft of the claim. You write and write for hours to put as many facts as possible, with pictures included… One day later… email back from the president of the MC telling you that the claim “does not proceed”. END OF THE STORY. No explanation why, no extended answer based in the NAC’s code, nothing… just few words saying: “IT DOES NOT PROCEED”

    Then you think… this does not look to official… I will rise the issue to the NAC. Ahhhhhhhhh, be ready, now is when things look even worse…

    ALL NACs, according their statutes and the civil code, should have a “Disciplinary Committee” to care on the legal and fair practice of the activity, should be independent and has the power to submit sanctions in both directions.

    Guess what? The Disciplinary Committee is not created, soooo… NOBODY is taking any care on HOW THINGS are done in the NAC.

    The rest, to continue…

    Conclusion: And now what? Would have been no problem if this was just one single time that it did happen, but believe me, from where I come, you do not have ANY RIGHT to claim for anything… You have to accept that it is going to happen what the “organizers” of the comp want to happen, this is why they take that much effort in making it happen. They do believe that “THE DESERVE” to do it in that way as they are organizing that… It is common position to ask you to organize yours if you want to do to them what they are doing to you. In summary… WILD WILD WEST… But with the guns in only one side!!!

    FAIR GAME??? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND???

  • Ok Roman, Time to know something about how things work in Argentina. Here the system is much more developed than in Spain!

    Lets suppose that you decide to go there to fly National Comps. And suppose that you are leading the comp with a fair margin that the others will have not chance to take you in the remaining rounds. You, as competitor, are doing what you can only do there, that is to keep flying in your best level…

    …Already flown 9 min of duration, only 1 min remaining, starting the approach to the landing point, ahhh the model is too high… you apply some butterfly… but be careful, the ground is too hard, so you can not stick the model with the nose… it has to be a good and smooth landing… you get it… you manage to touch ground and slow down the model applying some ailerons to stop it as close as possible to the landing point… you are really satisfied of the final result…

    Ok now, time to see the time and take the distance. You realize that the “official” jury you got, that was the “contest director” because, remember, here we are in Argentina, we do have a “Contest Director”, had have some problems taking his time, so he is “coordinating efforts” with you helper to agree the final time. When they are done, you wait for him to take the distance… he does not move, he is only at 3m from the model, but do nothing to take the distance… I decide to be polite, take the tape, put it straight against the model, see that the nose of the model was between 2m and 3m, asked for confirmation form the “Official Jury”, he gave it to me…

    Good then… almost 10min exaclty and 3 m landing, that is not that bad for that hard ground field… You decide, Good flight Francisco, you did it again… Take your model to go back to the parking spot…

    Are you still awake Roman, or so far nothing really interesting???

    Ahhhhh… when you have your model in you hand you hear from behind…

    YOU LOST YOUR LANDING POINTS!!!

    You know, we are latin… we use to do a lot of jokes… I expected some laughs… but not…

    The “Contest Director” that was my official Jury in that flight, told me that “I did touch the model before HE measures the landing distance”…

    At that time I realized what was happening there… Teams are small there, so it was agreed not to fly pilots of the same team together… The next and final round, I was flying against my team mate, it was the last one, supposedly the discard. I decided not to fly it and help my team mate.

    End of competition… and remember, here is Argentina… so we got results after the comp… I did manage to win “Without” those landing points and discarding the last flight. Good… damage was small…

    Guess what… at the night… I got position 5th… ahhhhhhhhh what did it happen??? Easy, results changed as they decided not to do the discard in a meeting after the comp in the NAC’s house at the NATS.

    Ah… I forgot to tell you that the Contest Director was part of the NAC’s Soaring Committee. Guess who won? ahhhh… my dear Hugo… Also member of the NAC’s Soaring Committee…

    You decide to protest against that… They ask you to write a claim and send it to the NAC.

    But… there it was all the NAC’s members… from president to secretary… as almost all categories are flown in one week in the same place. So, if you need to claim against results there, where all the people are, it does not proceed… You must send a letter and wait…

    You decide to leave the NATS and come back home… You do not even decide to claim other than exposing them to all public that was present in that competition… Everybody saw everything… Everybody knows what it did happen… But impossible to do anything against that…

    They start to write the “official truth” in their internet forum… I answered with facts, also showing them that they were asking me to pay $100 for the FAI fee of my Argentina International License each year. They decided to “REMOVE MY CLUB” from the list of clubs of the NAC, doing so, my Model Flying License was not valid any more and then I “HAD NO RIGHTS” to claim anything. Always without any kind of official process… You are nothing in the Argentinian NAC if you are not a member of it.

    They are lucky that I was not living in Argentina and I decided not to keep fighting…

    At this point. Do you see why I tell you this and where I am going?

    Come back few post before… Not that long ago, everything was well organized… enough economic support for everything and fair enough competition.

    Now, it is almost impossible to practice anything there… and now you should start to understand why those countries can not produce DECENT INTERNATIONAL TEAMS.

    DECENT TEAMS need DECENT PEOPLE… and DECENT PEOPLE do not support this kind of CORRUPT BEHAVIORS IN THE NAC!!!

    More next!!!

  • Sounds gripping. OK, waiting for next part.

  • “…Minutes of the 2010 CIAM Plenary Meeting (page 26): “It was agreed that the number of championships is now so great that major difficulties are experienced in finding enough organisers, venues, officials and FAI Jury members and there is a greater financial burden on NACs than ever before. Measures must be taken to reduce the number of Championships. Ideas put forward were a reduction in the classes overall; a reduction in championship classes; running combined championships and increasing the interval between Championships…”

    Roman,

    NACs have became “TERMINATORS” machines in most of the countries. I can just name more than ten countries that are not producing decent teams of anything while they have the economic-social development to be as successful as others. If that does not happen, is because the NAC is killing them… Wrong people managing them… so we have to find a way to change that…

    So, at this point? I think it is clear where I am going… all the issues raised in the previous paragraph comes as a consequence of a “lack of practice” of the sport. Lack of practice derived from the “lack of interest” from most to spend “energy” in the activity… That “energy” is just a matter of MOTIVATION and motivation can only happen when people have a FUTURE in front of them.

    Kill their “future” you kill their “motivation”, you kill the “activity”!!! and if then FAI finishes the loop by “destroying” categories, then we have no solution!!!

    We need WISE and INTELLIGENT people here… not attacking the consequence of the problem. but acting in the origin of it…

    “FAIR GAME”, that is all what we need!!!

    I know that it is much easier to find ways to “destroy” rather than “construct”, this is why the first move from FAI has been thinking in the direction of “destruction”, it is always the first “instinctive” reaction to all action, but if we are “smart”, “intelligent” and “wise”, we should fight against that first instinct and put our forces in the right direction… Creating FUTURE in an effort of, how was said? where was it?

    “… helping to create international good will and thus build a better and more peaceful world.”

    Ok, before I send you the next chapter of my story, the real GRIPPING ONE, a couple of thoughts:

    1- FIFA, you know, another International Federation, have reacted to the lack of interest to soccer by applying the technology to increase transparency and Fair Game. Next Soccer WC the ball will have sensors to detect when it is a goal or not and prevent conflicts.
    Where is FAI focusing in this direction? other than collecting money and spending in the wrong way?

    2- People now are more educated, just a little bit more than before, life style has increased and we have a much better understanding on what is “Fair Game”. As soon as new people tries to join our activity, if they do not see this first principle protected, they simply run away. WE HAVE TO PREVENT THAT!!!

    More later… need to test the 10Hz-Gps prototype… will send results before the PM to have something “CONSTRUCTIVE” for them to talk about there!!!

    PS: I suggest all people attending the PM to watch carefully “TITANIC” and “MONEY BALL”, both based in true stories, so, as real as anything we have and can live. If anybody is not capable on deeply understand them and see their direct relationship to “Our ISSUE” and the next PM, that person is not “INTELLECTUALY” prepared to have a voice in this problem!

  • Roman,

    Just a brief comment on something to think about…

    Do you see the preliminary entry list for the next F3b WCH? Do you see the Argentina Team there?

    Who do you think is making that possible? The NAC or myself?

    There is no F3b activity in Argentina any more, so the NAC has accepted, after some negotiations, to let those TWO pilots, without any international experience in competitions, to go alone but not having the opportunity to let me fill the team and have a complete team with somebody that can help them perform a little there!

    Now there is completely new people directing the NAC, but for them is more important to be “politically correct” with the previous directive than “rectifying” and focusing in what real matters, the FAIR GAME and the performance of the INTERNATIONAL TEAM!

    So, maybe, in the next Preliminary Meeting, F3b will be able to show some statistics on the number of countries and pilots that are in the preliminary list for the next WCH, to argue why it has to keep alive… and maybe, because Argentina is there, F3b will reach the minimum… If that happens:

    ALL OF THE PEOPLE THERE HAVE TO KNOW THAT IT IS BECAUSE MY EFFORTS IN MAKING IT HAPPEN, NOT THE ARGENTINIAN NAC!!!

    Do you think NACs are doing their job?

    BTW: If I am not in the team is because I told them that I do not want to represent them until they rectify on what it did happen. As long as the NAC do not accept that it was corruption in the NATS, I am not going to accept that NAC’s attitude in “managing” competitions, as they do not deserves to be well represented internationally.

    This is my way to “expose” them “internationally” and “fight” against “corruption” in the NAC!

  • MADE IN SPAIN

    Ok Roman, finally some time to tell you the last chapter of the first volume of the story. Ready?

    Just imagine that your first f3b experience in Spain is back in 2000. Just imagine that you live in the very south side of Spain and you met some team that have been active for a loooonnnng time in F3b, nationally and international as well. Just imagine that the first thing they told you is that they have decided not to continue flying any longer as back on 1998 the National Team Selection, for WC 1999 was irregularly organized to try to have three pilots with a model that needed to be promoted internationally in a search for some commercial profit for some sector of the f3b community based on the opposite end of the peninsula, so, up North.
    Just imagine that you go to your first f3b comp in Madrid on 2000 and you get 10th position. And imagine that nobody wanted to go to the next WC 2001 because the “mood” in the f3b was that “easy” that the team was composed by 1st, 10th and 11th qualified in that competition.

    Now jump to 2002, with one WC on my back and some experience. Imagine that you are not in the “preferred” list of candidate to compose the team for WC2003, and do not forget that we are in the middle of a commercial promotion of an Spanish model. Just imagine that I manage to be 2nd in that comp. and I get my place in the team. So far… So good!!

    Imagine that at the end of the competition, you are satisfied as you manage to be in the National Team, and suddenly, after the competition is over, our dear “friend” Carlos Aymat, you know, the current FAI-CIAM delegate from Spain, tells you that for that year, the “CRITERIA” to select the teams is going to change… AFTER WE GOT THE RESULT OF THE COMPETITION AND WE WERE CELEBRATING THE RESULTS!

    Just Imagine that you start 2003 waiting from news from the NAC asking you to start all the organization process for the WC2003. And Imagine that you do not hear anything…
    Imagine that you decide to ask your CLUB to submit a request to the NAC on why the process is taking too long to send the official notice on calling you to be a member of the team.

    Now, I ask you to do your best in create a picture about the answer from the NAC. They said that “I was not called as I got a sanction from the NAC and that prevents them to call me for any further selection team”

    Just imagine, that the f3b representative in the Model Committee is close friend of the producer of that model and also starting his own business on producing some f3f flying thing…

    So, what do you think it came to my mind??? Not that difficult… I simply asked WHY??? WHY??? Because, the Model Flying Committee stated that I was drinking alcohol, in the previous WC2001, and my performance was affected there…

    Yes, that could be a good argument to prevent anybody to take part of any international representation of your country.

    But in this specific case, two things were missed… 1st one is that it wasn’t open any “Official” process to “Investigate the facts”, but you know… who cares about facts, rights, NAC’s Regulations, and the Civil Code… we are just playing with small planes…
    And 2nd, And as most people know, I do not drink alcohol…

    So… When my Club came back to the NAC, and the situation was exposed, the directive of the NAC decided not to send any team to the 2003 WCH, and as a matter of anti-discriminatory prevention, decided to remove all economic support to f3b.

    What would you say then? How would you be your opinion on NACs if you have had my experience with them?

    Why do you think ALL my team, after years being seriously active in f3b, decided to stop practicing f3b and focusing in other categories?

    Why do you think that Spain has not been able to provide any decent team in years???

    And the best question… The one that directly applies to the Plenary Meeting in 16 days…

    WHY DO YOU THINK FAI NOW IS IN THE SITUATION OF LACK OF ACTIVITY IN MOST OF THE CATEGORIES?

    More soon…

  • Roman,

    One suggestion for the PM;

    Why not to let more than one team per country in WC events? If a country can provide enough pilots for more than one team, why not to let them compete? if we are in a situation of lack of participants?

    That could open a lot of possibilities and for sure, have a very populated competition.

    It is a decision easy to implement and could have a transition period time until this “crisis” is gone!

  • Hi Francisco,
    I don’t think so more than one team per country is good solution. Many questionable side effect incl. need for more money from NAC to support more teams etc.

    I don’t think so there is lack of participants. China was just exeption. When you look to history of F3B WC, I don’t seee any lack of participants.

  • Hi Roman,

    Well, I was not talking only about f3b. And it depends, if competitions are nearby Europe, maybe it is true what you say, but I did attempt to evaluate the option to organize one in Argentina, and then not too many people was interested in move that far.

    But, if you let to be two teams per country, one official and the other “semi-official”, then you will be able to organize WCH much easier as you will find enough participant that will attend it regardless where it is organized. If a pilot or a team wants to be WCH, then they will find the way to attend the event.

    Also, having a “semi-official” team, in most of the countries, there are not that many people interested in participate in a WCH, but for sure more than three, so, a lot of “out-fielded” competition will be over in the interest to participate.

    I am not saying that it is the best solution, but for sure has some potential to help in this situation. I can not see the negative side of it!

  • And also I suggest to change the date of the future PMs to whenever more advanced in the good weather, about end of summer.

    It is not healthy to discuss all these things after a long period in the dark and cold.

    People should go out, breath fresh air, do some exercise and fly a little… Maybe then some creative attitude will be predominant in those “Online Dicussions”!!!

  • Guys… we are running out of time! Are we doing the homeworks?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAHlZVgXjk

  • You know Roman, When I was a kid, it was a “joke” that was something like this:

    “To solve all problems in our country, we will need to kill all people with … skin color and all firefighters”

    The immediate response was to ask why to kill the firefighters???

    And here I ask you, Is there any relationship to the reaction of some people here to BD document?

    The sad part of this is that is an strategy typically used to “force” the people to choose for the least damage assuming that the damage will happen at some level.

    I do not see why this has to happen! we need to be above that psychological trap and not accept any level of destruction at all!!!

  • Session meetings will be held from tomorrow.

    I just had a conversation with our delegate. Mr. Reé will be against any initiative consisting of killing the F3B WC. Although, he emphasized that F3B got back regarding organizing countries in the recent period so there were not too many nominees for organizing the World Championchips and it is can be later a critical point. In case there are insufficient number of countries to apply for the role of organizing the event, or too few competitors, the issue will rise again such as in the scale categories.

  • Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
    — ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

    Silence is the virtue of those who are not wise
    — ???.

  • Hi Roman,

    One short observation I got from the lawyer I know…

    As said before, a Federation has the privilege to be the only one in the word to regulate an activity, and any other Association that would like to do something similar it is forbidden.

    But… and here is when things are interesting… if the Federation is the one that decides not to continue regulating a specific activity, then… and only then… a NEW FEDERATION can be created to take responsibility on those duties…

    I will start to have a better understanding on how to formalize one and stay alert to apply for the Federation privileges if FAI releases some of the model flying classes… Once I get them, FAI will not be able to claim for them any more in the future!!!

    Sounds interesting this new approach to the situation…

    Winds of Changes…

  • Hi Francisco,
    thanks for short insight. Few notices.

    As far as I know there is no official report from Open Forum. The only one (unofficial) which I know is Gordon Buckland’s. If you read it there was no decision to drop any FAI discipline so far.

    Frankly, if some discipline is not viable, has no activity, is “dead”, I don’t see any reason to support it. Let’s talk (not here) what is criteria for this.

    Originally I was shocked by incompetent and “blahblah” style of B.Delor’s report. Let’s see what will be movement of whole matter.

  • Ahhh Roman… what a X-FAI we do have… would have been more media attractive to watch the Plenary Meeting online than any other WCH they pretend to organize! 😉

    Common sense isn’t a gift, its a punishment
    Because you have to deal with the people who
    don’t have it.
    – My mom’s friend

    Who cares… I will be just waiting for FAI to move…

    Good luck!

  • Hi Roman,

    You know, some Italian pilots have shared this video in my Facebook:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLclGPr7fj4

    The first thing it came to my mind is that we can suggest it for the next Plenary Meeting of the X-FAI! Would be good to have a f3b WC flown by dogs!!! For sure a media success!!!

    Love and Peace!

  • Hi Francisco,
    not bad idea (smile). Nice movie. Dogs are skating, surfing, dancing but so far no F3B parachute retrieving. We should apply for some FAI grant to solve finally this critical matter, shouldn’t we?

    Peace in Love!

  • Hi Roman,

    Now we are talking!

    See you soon!

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